CHRO on the spot: nine questions with Publicis Groupe’s Pauly Grant

No, I was never one of those people who had their defined career path. I actually went straight from school into university to study nursing, but it only lasted two years because I would faint in the operating theatre! So I decided that really wasn’t for me. 

The real switch came when I was working in an office in a building supply company. There were a lot of migrant workers and I recognised that they weren’t being treated in the same way I was. There had been issues with their pay and they spoke to me about it, so I spoke to the business leaders and started to broker a deal. 

And that’s probably the moment that started my trajectory into business and the people function. I’m not formally trained as a HR leader, which I think gives me a bit of an advantage, to be honest. I just have a very strong belief that if you create an environment where people can thrive, they will do their best work.

They would say I am very ideas-focused – maybe sometimes too much so! I have a lot of ideas. I can be a little chaotic, a bit disorganised, but I’m really energising. They would say I’m a connector, kind and caring, deeply human and someone who thinks outside of the box.

Adaptability. They need to be extremely comfortable with change. HR-leadership roles require different skills than they did in the past. There is much more emphasis on experience and strategy than on policy and legal. You absolutely need to have those latter skills, but as a CHRO or chief people officer (CPO), it’s about focusing on strategic change and working out how to shape the business. You also need strong stakeholder-management and influencing skills.

I think it’s about not getting caught up in it, but still understanding what is happening and putting it into perspective. With a lot of businesses, it’s all about efficiency and productivity without looking at the people they’ve got in front of them – but they’ll still need the majority of those people, so the focus should be on augmenting their skills. It’s about how we help navigate our people through change. 

It’s really just a shift in the skills that we need and most of our people will have the majority of the skills already. I’ve heard horror stories where companies have let their whole customer service department go and then, within six months, had to bring them back. Because we all know that it’s not a perfect science yet. 

So we’re thinking about how to use AI to enhance people’s experience. It’s not just about implementing AI to make a workflows more efficient, it’s actually guiding people and communicating with them, because a lot of people are scared and overwhelmed by the message that you’ve got to be using it or else. You’ve got to have a plan and a strategy. We’ve invested a lot of money in giving people the opportunities to reskill, which I think creates that humanity because we’re helping them on that journey.

When I’m looking at leaders, I’m looking for people who show humanity at the heart. I’m interested in how they prioritise human connection, dignity and wellbeing when they’re making decisions. 

Then, for our organisation, it’s being an ‘intrapreneur’, someone who is an innovative thinker, resourceful, collaborative and influential. Adaptability also is really key. And one more that is coming up a lot is critical thinking. I’m really pleased about this one, because our school and university systems are built around a certain way of learning. And I believe there are many smart, creative, critical thinkers that just get left behind. This is their time, because AI levels the playing field in a lot of ways.

I think some HR teams are not equipped for what is coming. I was at a CPO get-together the other day, and someone from a technology company mentioned he had introduced product leads into his people and culture team. We need a different type of thinking in these teams, we need people with experience in running products, which HR teams don’t usually have. 

The other challenge we’re really focusing on at the moment is strategic workforce planning. We’re pulling roles apart, identifying what it is that we have right in front of us and working with the business to decide what we need going forward. 

Organisations used to do that five years ahead, but now it’s changing so quickly and the talent landscape is going to look very different, even in a year. So strategic workforce planning is a big capability that we are upskilling for.

One thing I’m really proud of is, as a 54-year-old woman who started going through menopause at 47, I really campaigned for us to create menopause leave in my Australia and New Zealand role. We’ve now started spreading it out across the APAC markets. We knew it was challenging and a massive experience that most women go through, but no one was speaking about it.

Working with my team, we released a whole menopause policy, with 10 days menopause leave, and we did a series of talks. I had people coming to me and saying, “Oh my gosh, I’ve never been able to talk to anyone about this. This is fantastic.” It changed people’s lives. And I think that’s what I love about my job. I believe if we can create a place where people are happy and energised and we can impact people’s lives in a positive way, then we’re all doing what we’re here to do. 

Most recently, I’m proud of launching Publicis Moves, our internal mobility programme that encourages people to explore different career paths in the group, across capabilities, agencies and markets. We recognise our people have priorities and needs outside of work, so we focus on helping them to thrive in their life experience, not just their employee experience. Publicis Moves is one of many initiatives we’re driving to support this.

I’m not going to do a book at all, because I have to be true to myself – I read books for pleasure but when I’m trying to gain knowledge and discover different things, it’s podcasts for me.

The one I love is called Your Undivided Attention, by The Center for Humane Technology. The most recent episode I listened to was called “The Crisis That United Humanity – and Why it Matters for AI”. 

For any leader, sure, there are fantastic books about leadership out there, but you also need to broaden your knowledge and your understanding of what’s going on in the world, because whatever is going on in that world is going to be impacting the people you lead. And sometimes I think we can read too many leadership books and not do enough of just leading and being human and observing and listening to what’s going on around you.

When you get to this level in HR, it’s not a question of ticking boxes any more. For too many people in HR roles, the mindset seems to be, “I’m an achiever. I’m going to tick that off. I’m going to get through that list.” You have to stop thinking like that when you get to this level. You have to really listen and you have to observe. It’s about joining the dots across the business. You can’t focus just on what’s in front of you. You’ve got to have that one eye on the future as well.